joeseb farrugia
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Maybe I am misunderstanding. When you say “the flywheel stator cover” , are you referring to the cover on the left hand side of the bike looking forward i.e. where the gear lever is? This would be where the magneto coils sit.
@MARCEL, Thank you for your comments. Although my bike is a 2013 bike, due to various problems I have had with it, it has only about 26000km on the clock. Since your suggestion to inspect the sprag-clutch entails dismantling the whole engine I will leave this as a last resort. I have done most of the other things you have suggested including removing the cylinder heads and decarbonising and rebedding the valves, replaced the coils, plugs and ht cables. I was even lucky to purchase, at a very low price, a second hand ECU which was never used due his bike getting stolen and changing this had no effect either. I have changed the fuel filter inside the tank, checked the ISC, cleaned the injectors all to no avail.
Since besides the sluggish starting I am still facing issues with the engine beginning to miss after about 15mins working and eventually it stalls completely, that is why I am turning my attention to the operation of the pickup coil.
So far I have found very skimpy information on the internet re answers to the questions I posted earlier. There are a couple of sites involved in the building of ECU’s for racing motor bikes which discuss this vaguely.
Some proposals include the ECU sending a pulse on BOTH plugs at startup and then monitoring the peak to peak timing of the pick up coil pulses shown in yellow above. The theory being that at the point that the peak to peak time is longest that particular cylinder is in the compression stroke phase. This sounds quite tricky to me. Others seem to somehow monitor the MAP sensor but this method seems even more vague to me.
Jo. It has been a year since I was playing with the ISC so my recollection may not be accurate. But here goes.
You cannot screw the piston back in the normal sense since I believe the piston moves in a guide along the axis. This guide is what allows the in/out movement when the stepper motor threaded spindle rotates inside piston’s “nut”.
I think what I did was align the piston to mate with the ISC housing and then hold the piston and body between thumb and forefinger with sufficient pressure to stop thye piston rotating along with the stepper motor.
Turn on the ignition key and initially the stepper motor would be trying to push the piston further out. During the second phase the stepper motor will rotate in the opposite direct and provide you are still aligned the piston will be drawn back in.
At that point turn off the ignition, fit the ISC back into the airbox, then turn the ignition back on. At this point the system should initiate the piston calibration procedure again.
I am still using the same ISC as I concluded it is not the source of the problem I have with my bike. Hope this helps.
Some comments regarding the ISC sensor popping out its piston.
In my bike if you turn on the ignition with the ISC out of place the piston also pops out.
From what I have read and my own conclusions this is normal behaviour because it is the ECU trying to calibrate the ISC before each startup.
What seems to be happening is this: the ISC, which is actually a stepper motor, pushes out the piston until it closes out the vent ( when installed of course). As this point the ECU sends out a fixed number of pulses in the opposite direction to open the vent at starting to a certain amount.
Hi, just stumbled on this thread this morning. I own a 2013 GT250 EFI which had developed a dash display issue similar to yours. In my case the problem was a badly corroded connector which feeds power to the dash display. It was, annoyingly, a cheap white connector which has no protection against the elements. The contacts themselves were bare copper which ended up green.
On my bike this connector is situated on the side of the steering column. It was hard to get to but with a lot of patience can be replaced with a better connector. Sorry I don’t have pictures since occurred some years ago.
This of course is not related to your other issue with the charging system.
Att: Marcel,
I look forward to any info you can get. What disgusts about my strainer is:
1. What is that black stuff inside the strainer? All pictures i have seen indicates that the stuff is whiter than white.
2. The gauze enclosing the whole strainer is quite intact. I dipped the strainer without dismantling it in a glass vessel filled with petrol and the petrol stayed very clear. That is unlike the colour of the petrol drained from the other side. I also dipped the strainer in carb cleaning fluid and liquid turned immediately coffee black.Att: Sam,
Interesting observations. My bike too has just one TPS for the whole system. I will be replicating your settings experiments eventually but at the moment I think it makes more sense for me to resolve the fuel filter issue first.
Thank you for the link you forwarded. The price of $18 for the strainer is not too bad but shipping at $25 is shocking. I am in Europe so I need to find a supplier closer to home to reduce shipping costs.
In the meantime, whilst enquiring about filters at the local carparts suppliers I picked up on of these ( only $1). This obviously will not handle the 5Bar Marcel mentioned earlier but I am considering beefing up the filter housing with fibre glass tape and resin. The filter ends appear to be strong enough to handle the pressure but the cylinder part no. The plan is to wrap Fibre Glass tape several times round the cylinder area.
Is this a daft idea? At $1 it may be worth the trial if I don’t cause damage elsewhere.
Att: Marcel,
No need to apologize. I guess I panicked. The decision to approve each message sent is commendable. Thank you for this service.
Att: Sam,
The decision to close the plates completely at idling makes sense to me since this allows the ECU to set airflow based solely on the ISC solenoid. If your idling speed is not stabilising yo may want to investigate the movements of the ISC.
Here is a photo a jig I set up to view the movements of the ISC. The reason this is needed is because since air intake at idling is not restricted the ECU will attempt to push out the ISC piston in an attempt to reduce airflow and therefore engine idling speed.
Whilst experimenting I also noted that my fuel injector number 2 had some small black particles lodged at the bottom end which is of course not good and may lead to misfiring. This led me to the fuel pump a picture of which is shown below. When I removed the pump from the tank I emptied the remaining fuel from inside its pipe into a very clean cup and indeed similar particles settled at the bottom of the container. Inspecting the fuel filter attached to the pump showed that the “fine gauze” enclosing the contents was intact. The filter seems to contain some black stuff inside and it appears to be leaking into the pump and then on to the injectors. See picture below of my pump. The question I would like to pose is:
1. can the fuel filter be replaced on its own? Replacing the whole pump is costly.
2. Can I add an inline filter between the pump and the injectors? I was advised that the small ones readily available would not handle the pump pressure. The ones I could find are quite large intended for use in Motor vehicles.
Suggestions for a solution are most welcome.
Regards
joe
Att: Administrator,
Earlier today I received a copy of a fresh comments written by Sam but when I log into the forum his message (#post-13005) does not show.
Att: Sam,
On my bike the ISC just has a piston which plunges into a hole into the air filter box. The 2 pipes from the carbs connect directly to the box right next to the ISC. The function of the ISC is to open an aperture from the air and allows a controlled amount of air to the 2 pipes.
Re the manometer, thanks for the link. There are also a lot of detail how to cheaply built one on Utube. The videos show the 2 manometer pipes connected to 2 special holes in the carbs or the cylinder head. I did not see any equivalent holes in my setup. The only 2 holes I see are the ones for the 2 pipes mentioned above.
Regards
Joe
Thank you very much Sam for a very, very interesting report. I would never have guessed that throttle misalignment would effect stalling/sputtering. May I ask if your bike model is the FI version? The reason I ask is that the manual I have, which I assumed applied to your bike, is for the 250FI. According to that manual, the 250FI has most of the sensors of the EFI models but NO TPS sensors. Strange.
Turning to my setup I am trying to understand how throttle misalignment can affect stalling at idle. The reason I say this is, at idle both throttle valves are completely closed and all the air needed for combustion at idle is led into the engine by means of 2 separate pipes feeding into the carbs at the engine side of the throttle valves. Air flow into these pipes is controlled by a single ISC motor. This to me implied that the throttle is completely bypassed at idle. Your report indicates otherwise.
I wonder how I can go about synchronising the carbs. I have no such equipment.
Regards
joe
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks. initially I had thought that you had to screw or unscrew with an M10 that centre bolt to arrive at the correct tension.
To complete your description, one needs to turn the internal screw fully clockwise to retract the pin and then to unscrew half a turn or so to release the spring tensioner.
By the way I had a lot of aggravation aligning the cam shafts with the crank, with the engine in place. The chain kept slipping one tooth whilst trying to engage correctly the second cam.
I hope I don’t have to repeat this in the near future!
Regards
With the IAP-2 disconnected you should get the C18 error. Do you confirm this?
With IAP-2 disconnected and bike power turned on, check the voltages on the 3 wires of its terminal connection.
According to my manual, the resistance to ground(chassis) from the BW wire should be 0 ohms. The voltage on the OB wire should be between 4.5V and 5.5V. There is no value specified on the BY wire with the sensor disconnected. I would expect it to be zero.
Repeat measurements with sensor connected and compare. The value on the BY wire should be as stated previously.
I would also compare these figures with those on the IAP-1 sensor. Note that the equivalent to the BY will be BL.
Hopefully these measurements may lead you to a solution.
With regards to your VCDS cable it appears to be similar to the VAG-KKL cable. The software to go with it, which I had mentioned at the earlier in this thread, was written for the Delphi ECU MT05 so I am not sure if you can use it with your ECU. You need to check this.
Hi,
Recently I had to remove the cylinder head of my GT250 to check a valve related issue.
In order to remove the cams one has to release the tension on the chain from the chain tensioner. As per manual I undid the 2 outer bolts whist leaving the settings bolt untouched.
I have now reassembled everything and I have found out that chain is already well tensioned even before the 2 outside bolts are fully tightened.
The instruction manual I have, is quite hopeless when it comes to explain the correct way to achieve proper tension.
Can somebody please advise?
Regards
joe
Sorry to hear that your problem remains.
You keep referring to MAP sensors but none of the manuals I have mention MAP. They do mention IAP though so I assume you are referring to these. It seems your bike has two IAP sensors. My bike which is the 2013 model (also referred to as the Dspec version) only has one.
Going back to your bike, with one IAP sensor off, the bike should be generating error C17 for IAP-1 or C18 for IAP-2. Which?
Also the voltage on the signal pin for these sensors should be 0.1V < sensor voltage < 4.8V. What is the value?
Also, seeing that you have 2 sensors, what happens if you swap the 2 around?
Also do you have the possibility of collecting data from the ECU?
I realise the above are not the solution. Just some avenues of analysis.
Regards
joe
Hi Sam,
this is an attempt to comment on all your 3 mail.
My bike is an EFI system and it still has 2 carburettors. The carbs control the airflow while the ECU controls the rest. I therefore don’t understand what you mean by “carbed”. In my system, what is a bit disappointing to me is that the fuel injectors spray into the bottom end of the carburettors and not directly into the cylinder. While I don’t like it, this of course is not the reason for my problem.
Ignition timing is determined mechanically, by the timing chain plus cam shafts and electrically, via one pickup coil near the magneto together with the ECU. The pick up coil only generates one pulse per revolution so the ECU is the one which estimates at what point the 2 sets of injector and spark plug activate.
The valve clearance is according to spec and the cams are properly aligned with piston at TDC so this cannot be the reason why combustion is leaking back into the carb!
I have looked at the ebay coils you indicated. They are totally different to mine. Most important difference is the connector. Mine are Delphi as are most of the electrical components around the engine.
If you have a fault which only appears after the engine has completely warmed up then I am afraid measuring the DC resistance at cold may not point you to the fault. Mine too measured up properly at cold but I still was facing idling fails when hot.
I am glad to hear that you have found the culprit for your system. I would not have thought these to be the issue but then again I am just an amateur at bike repair.
Regards
Joe
Hi,
Regretfully I have not solved the issue yet but given that I have another bike I can use I have not really been trying anyway.
Having said that, just last week I made another attempt as follows. I installed the tank temporarily about 200mm higher, removed the air cleaner and reconnected the tank with a longer pipe to the injectors. The 2 pipes from the carbs leading to the ISC were disconnected from the ISC side. When I started the bike in this condition, initially I noted that sometimes combustion was taking place under the carb 2 throttle. Eventually this disappeared but I was still getting some misses from the engine which coincided with back pressure coming out of cylinder 2 pipe. The only conclusion which comes to mind is that sometimes the inlet valves were not closing completely. I checked valve gaps but these appeared to be according to specs, right in the middle of the range.
I am currently dismantling the cylinder head to see if I have some issue with valve seating.
I don’t know if this issue is related to the original one but at the moment I have no further leads.
I am still interested in getting to the bottom of this problem and, if ok with you, I would like to collaborate with you to arrive at a solution.
In the meantime can you tell me from where you have sourced the coils and also how you intend to diagnose the temperature sensor?
Regards
joe
I use a trolley lifter which basically lifts the rear end up from the forks. I think this compresses the rear suspension to the same amount as when the bike is on the ground, on its side stand.
In any case it is a good idea to check again the slack when the bike is back down on the stand.
Thank you for your advice.
I will check alignment according to your method over the next few days.
One point… you say slack has to be 15mm but the Hyosung manual recommends 30mm!!!
Thank you Marcel for your suggestions. I could not trace the chain you specified but I did find an Xring alternative. I did ask the opinion of other riders about the quality of this company ( JT drive chain ) and their opinion was positive if not stellar.
With the old chain removed I was amazed at the amount of stretch this chain had. I laid the chain in a straight line on the floor and compressed the chain by hand to its minimum length. I then stretched the chain as hard as I could manually. The chain extended by aa whopping 30mm! What is worse is that extension was not even along all the links but was concentrated in certain areas. No wonder I was having problems with setting up the recommended chain sag! With the chain removed I tried to see if I had any eccentricities in my sprockets. Thankfully there is none at least at the tip.
The new chain fitted well and chain sag was consistent throughout the full chain rotation. I also noted that a lot of cyclic noise which I used to experience before the change disappeared altogether.
My main question now is what can I do to minimise wear and tear. Do I have a problem with my riding style. I tend to use engine braking a lot so I wonder is this can be an issue? How frequent should the chain be cleaned and lubricated? What is the expected lifetime of a chain?
Regarding wheel alignment I do have a good laser light which I can use but am unsure on the correct procedure of how to use it. Any suggestions please?
Christmas Greetings to all.
Here are pictures of the 2 sprockets.
Current chain is marked 520 HO and SLC stamped on it.
The bike only has 15000km on the clock and both sprockets are the original Hyosung sprockets. I would be disappointed if the teeth have already worn out.I don’t know the make of the drive chain but I had bought it from the local Hyosung Agent.
What Chain is recommended?
In the next couple of days I will take photos of the sprockets and post here.
Thanks.
