Zargoo
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Hey,
So it took me some time, but it seems to have been the ignition coil or plug. I measured both in cold and hot, and they always measured fine for some reason, within the specs. But I connected my oscilloscope to the ignition coil’s ECU signal and pick-up signal and R/R amps output, and after that I could see quite clearly that at the exact moment one of the coils fired, the amps dropped to 0, meaning one of the coils was shorting and required more amps than the R/R supplied, which dropped the whole system to 0 amps. This also caused the headlight to flicker for that moment. Now I got NGK plugs, Tourmax IGN 303 (the ones on that Suzuki you mentioned) ignition coils, and NGK spark plugs, and now the problem seems to have been fixed. I ran the bike for over 30 minutes at idle, and it did not die, which was until now the longest time it ever ran.
So for now that is good, but one thing that bothers me a bit is the FI lamp and dealer mode, as both don’t seem to do anything. I disconnected the intake air pressure sensor and temp sensor, and in the manual it says it should show an error via code in dealer mode or blinking of the FI lamp, but the lamp never lights up. Also, on bike start it never turns on. I also checked the PCB itself, injected 3.3V to the FI lamp, and it worked, so the LED on the PCB of the speedo seems to still work.
Also, one other thing I am unsure about is the fuse on the R/R, as the bike’s main fuse is 30 amps. After doing a test and turning everything on that is possible, I got at high RPM to a usage of 20-22 amps, so for now I swapped the 20-amp fuse at the R/R to 25 amps to be sure. Theoretically, the Shindengen should be fine with 30 amps steady, but I would rather like to have a bit of a safe buffer. But as you said, the 15-amp fuse on the R/R should work, so I’m not sure what is going on and if that is normal, as it seems like the usage is steady now, just that it’s steady at 20 amps.
But for now it seems okay. I will do the normal service parts for now, like oil and air filter, and will see after a test drive if maybe I get some errors or the FI lamp to work.
Maybe you have some recommendations from your experience with the GV650, if that 20 amps makes sense on the R/R, or if it could still be worth checking for issues with the harness. I did check most of the wires and voltage drops and found only one big drop on the headlight fuse holder, which I replaced, and now it is near 0V of voltage drop instead of like 0.3V.
Also, big thank you for all the help and recommendations.
Hey,
Thanks for the detailed reply, was working on it yesterday again, and checked the stator again and it was at 5krpm 80VAC so that was fine, the 35 I mentioned earlier were while everything was connected and the bike charged.
Now to quickly find what could cause the bike turning off, as I assumed this is an electrical fault (something pulling too much amps), I started to disconnect everything, and the weird thing now is when the bike is cold and is started it will work until it’s warm.
Now when it gets warm after some time it starts to drown, I would say hard to describe, but it’s as if there is no spark for one cycle and then runs fine again and then drowns again and so on, and also pops can be heard from the exhaust, so I am pretty certain I now have to look and check the coils, injectors, and spark plugs. If those are fine, it might be an issue with the ECU, as the speedo already was hit by the shorted wires that the bike had when I first got it, aka the random km value.
Also checked again which wires were melted together, as I before fixing it wrote it down, and it was the Red power wire to the ECU with some others, so it might be likely that the ECU also took some damage because no matter what sensors I disconnect while the bike is running and dealer mode is enabled, I never get the FI lamp to turn on.
As after testing some more, I got the bike to die suddenly while nearly everything was disconnected. I disconnected all lamps and even the speedo, monitored the RR amps output and voltage, and it was 14V at 5-7 amps, aka only the fuel pump really running, and the bike just died.
Also, what is weird is it could be an ECU fault, but it does not really align with the fact that it works when cold, but after running for 5-10 mins and getting warm it starts that weird drowning. Also, it is not regular; it’s like it gets no spark for 1 cycle, runs fine for the next 30 seconds, then gets no spark for 2-3 cycles, runs fine again, then for 1 cycle, and so on. And then after it runs for multiple minutes it suddenly dies as if it skipped 5-10 cycles at once.
Maybe you know what this could be.
Also, do you know by any chance what the usual amp usage is on the GV650? Because no matter what I do, a 10 amp fuse on the RR won’t work, as when I measured just the headlight + fuel pump it’s 10A, + blinkers, brake light, radiator fan, it easily gets to 15A, and then when under high RPM it even goes up to 19 amps. The Shindengen RR says it will work at 30A steady, but not sure if the GV650 should be using 20 amps. As I then used a 15A fuse, which under high RPM and high load, aka everything on, also burned. Now I’m on a 20A fuse but not sure what the GV650 usually needs, as I saw upgrade kits that used 10 amp fuses.
Also checked plugs, wires, and relays, and they seem fine, but will probably swap all relays as they could be the cause for the high amp usage, as I did not yet do a voltage drop test on those relays. What I found weird is the installed relays are all 20 amps, but when I checked the parts catalogue and service manual it says those should be 30 amps. And from my measured amps at high RPM, which was at 19 amps, those relays would have worked basically at the limit of their rated amps.
And yeah made sure the service and owner manuals i was using are 2009.
Hey, thank you for the nice and detailed answer, so it took me some days but I was testing and this is my progress so far with the help of your recommendations.
At first I measured the phases like you suggested, which I did many times over the course of searching for the issue, and they always measured fine at around 0.26-0.28 at cold after sitting overnight and right after 5k rpm.
Now the stator basically always measured fine in terms of ohms. Now what I found is I hooked up the oscilloscope again and measured the phases phase to phase again, aka Pin 1-2, 2-3, 3-1 again, and also used the pick-up signal to get an RPM reading. And at 5k rpm I had 28V – 30V – 18V, which is very uneven; the drop to 18V is quite suspicious. So it seems it was like you said, an unbalanced load.
So with that info, I ordered a new stator and also a genuine Shindengen FH022AA.
Now after swapping the stator and the RR and also making an adapter with a 10A fuse, the problem was that the fuse always blew. At ignition on it was fine; at crank it blew. I then used a current clamp to test the amps on start and it was 15A, so I swapped to a 15A fuse and it now worked. Now from testing, the headlight takes 5A, the fuel pump at idle also 5A, and the RR seems to charge at 15A, and measuring at the battery positive wire, it receives 5A of charging current at 13V (the battery was a bit discharged already and was only at 12V).
Also, the main fuse on the bike is 30A, and yes it uses a Daewoo ECU, and it also still has the original Daewoo pump. And also yes, it is not using a Lithium battery; it’s a YTX14-BS gel battery.
Now at idle everything now seems fine; it no longer overheats the RR after 30 seconds of idle. Also, I tested with an external battery, connected the RR directly to a fully separate battery, and it charged at a better rate of 14V than what I saw on the bike at idle.
Though now I have quite a different problem that might be worse or better, not sure yet. Because the following is happening now: at idle the bike runs and seems to be able to run until there is no fuel. But when I rev the bike to 5k rpm, something weird now started happening. The first few times it is fine; the charging current goes up to 14V at high rpm then drops again. Stator phase to phase is around 35V – 40V; at idle it’s at 30V.
Now I am yet uncertain what the exact cause is, as I did not yet start to investigate, but it yet seems to happen randomly. I rev the bike, I can see battery voltage drop to 10,62V at high rpm with 12-15 amps pulling on the battery. Then after the revs and load, it goes back to 5A and 11V, which is way too low, and then the bike runs for 10-20 seconds and dies.
Now I did not yet test anything and will start probably tomorrow, but that is my first observation for now and might be wrong. I checked the RR 15A fuse and it was fine. One of my suspects is the ground strap from the battery negative, as this might cause high resistance under load and drop the voltage. Also, it could be the battery, as even if it did test on my tester at a low impedance of 12.62 mOhm, it could still be faulty. Also to note, I did connect the RR directly to the battery, not using the harness, and the same thing happens.
Also to note is that when I first got this bike, it was not starting at all and the issue was a cooked wire. I was testing each ECU wire and noticed some mismatches with the wiring diagram and then after opening the harness found 3-4 wires melted together. After fixing those, it ran, and I then had all the issues with the charging system. Now at least with the new stator and RR it seems fine, but still something might be off.
Also interesting is the tachometer, as it has an FI lamp which from reading the manual should turn on when there are issues with the FI system. From the manual:
“The injection signal is stopped, when the pick-up coil signal, roll over switch signal, NO.1 & NO.2 ignition signals,
NO.1 & NO.2 injector signals, fuel pump relay signal or ignition switch signal is not sent to the ECU.
In this case, “FI” letters is indicated in the LCD panel ① continuously. Motorcycle does not run.”So I once disconnected the pick-up signal, but the FI lamp never turned on. Back then, I just thought it might be a defective lamp or tachometer, or it just needs the issue to happen while running for it to be memorized on the next start. (This was at the time when the bike did not turn on at all.)
Now I also tried the dealer mode switch and it also never worked or showed anything on the tacho display.
Also, on the wiring diagram I saw there is a CAN TOOL connector, and it looks like a K-line connection to the ECU. I also tested this with my motorcycle diag tool but also could not get any readings on any K-line protocol. And as this is not a Delphi ECU, which I know for certain works with my diag tool from other bikes via K-line, I just ignored this as I thought this might just be a different own protocol on the Daewoo ECU, or simply the Daewoo ECU might not have a real diag at all.
Also, one more weird thing when I started testing is the radiator fan turns on, but the tacho shows the water temp at nearly the lowest; from like 10 steps it has, it was at 2. And from other bikes as reference, usually the fan turns on at at least 5 or more. And also, one weird thing is the km on the tacho, because the bike should have around 2000 km, but the tacho just shows the maxed-out number possible of 999999 km.
Because of that, I am now slowly starting to think maybe it’s also an ECU issue, though it’s a bit unlikely, or so I think, because the ECU itself gives power to the fuel pump and injectors and the bike does run fine. If there were any major issue with the running itself, then maybe, and to be honest, I’d rather just have wrong things in the tacho than the bike run poorly or not at all and requiring a new ECU.
But just wanted to provide a bit more context about the bike and how it started, as this might help with the current issue I am seeing where the bike dies with a very low battery voltage after some revs, even though at idle it seems to charge, and on an external battery it charges even better, it seems. As I am also uncertain if the 15A fuse on the RR is really correct, or if that is the issue already and it should be less than 10 but is on this bike for some reason 15.
But already, thank you for the big help, as this is my first Hyosung bike and I’m really hoping to get it running, and sadly I don’t have any other Hyosung bike I could reference, as just having a second running GV650 FI would immensely speed up the diag.
The channel layout for all images below is the same:
CH A – Probe on Y1 wire from the Stator uses a 20:1 attenuator
CH B – Probe on RR DC + output
CH C – Probe on RR DC – output (BW wire), with the probe ground reference clipped to battery negative. Since both the BW wire and the probe reference connect to the same point (battery negative), this channel essentially measures the voltage drop across the ground return path.
CH D – Probe on Bat Positive TerminalAll probe ground references use the same batter negative clip to provide the exact same ground reference wire path for all channels.
Below is the wavefrom of my initial test, u can clearly see the weird drops and spikes, the RR DC output voltage drops towards 0V at the same time the ground resistance seems to jump up as, this also cuts the stator phase short.
Now the exact same probe setup above but this time with my own DC return path aka the described own positive and negative wire with a fuse directly to battery.
To note here is the ground resistance is much lower and also as this was a bit after the first test the battery has a higher voltage.
Now this waveform below is a reference i used as at some point i was thinking maybe this is just how the RR cuts off and its normal, as i dont have atm any similar bike to the engine type of the hyosung bike i could only do the exact same setup on a CBR600RR 2003 so below is the waveform for that and this does not have those massive drops of voltage and yes i know this is not a good comparison to hyosung engine type but it uses the same charge system with a shunt RR.
Also to note here is no matter how hot the RR was even when it was boiling hot like oem hyosung RR that broke it never stopped charging it always charged and never had that failure point i am experiencing on the hyosung where it just stops charging and either shorts out like the oem one or recovers after cooling off. It always worked at idle and high rpm.
Now also i also run the setup of test 1 until the failure event once, and got this waveform after it stopped charging.
To note on the post-failure waveform, after the R/R thermally fails and stops charging, the behavior is strange. It’s unlikely this R/R has any built-in thermal protection to shut down gracefully. If it had truly shut down completely, all SCRs would be fully fired and the stator phase on Channel A should show a flat line at ~1.5-2V just the forward voltage drop of two diodes routing current straight back to the stator. But that’s not what I see. Channel A still shows 14.4V rectangular waves as if the R/R is actively regulating at ~50% SCR duty. Yet the R/R DC positive output reads only 12.86V while the battery sits at 12.93V meaning the battery is actually at a higher voltage than the R/R output, so zero charging current can flow. The math doesn’t add up either: a 14.4V stator peak minus ~1.4V across two diode drops should yield around 13.0V at the DC output, not 12.86V. Something inside this R/R is clearly not functioning correctly after thermal failure it’s neither fully shutting down nor properly charging, it’s stuck in a broken state where it wastes stator energy through partial SCR firing while simultaneously failing to deliver any power to the battery.
As it seems like there is no option to enlarge the images i also added them in the same order to imgur: https://imgur.com/a/soi5HHP
