Miss and backfire under 5k only after engine warms up – 2009 GT650R
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Bike Model = : 09 650gtr
My 09 650 gtr has a miss and backfire only under 5k revs and only after the engine warms up. Over 5k it runs great. I bought new coils and caps . Do new spark plugs need the gap adjusted? I don’t know if anyone remembers the problems I’ve had. In the end I found out my coils were shot. So I just fitted them and this is where I am now.
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Ok I haven’t had a chance to go for a ride until yesterday. It still backfires and misses and stalls. It seems mainly under 5 k revs. So I’ve checked all connections and replaced the coils, leads, caps and plugs and injectors. I’m thinking maybe the ecu is stuffed?
It may be your fuel pump wanning ? Have you got a new one to rule it out first ?
// Meditation doesn't mean you have to sit still....
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At the risk of being shouted at! 🤐 (as i know this means strip down time) – You may need to re-download the service manual on this forum that matches your bike (i uploaded loads of variations Hyosung made) and use a pocket meter to test every single electric sensor on the bike until you’re dead sure it’s all in spec
Fuel Pump = I haven’t got a conclusion yet but i’d keep an eye on it.
The ECU should be the last resort and it’s not exactly easy to get hold of due the 2009 type you have as Hyosung has moved on to 2014+ delphi systems. Though, if your bike starts and runs, i suspect to try and at least measure every sensor on the bike 1st before forking out money for another ECU.
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Getting somewhere! Great news 😀 , if you can, use “contact cleaner” on every plug , trust me it should pay off, incase of oxidization of pins on cewrtain plugs , the signals shoulds flow steady to the ECU and various sensors on the bike. Let it dry for least 1 day so you don’t have wet pins connecting the ECU again (too easy to fry the ECU)
2K is good but a bit too hot for it for idling, if it can idle around 1500-1800 max, we’re good to go!
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Thanks Marcel, I’ve already sprayed all or the plugs. Is this something the isc solenoid can do?
The ISC unit is what controls the idling speed yes, unlike carbs where you have to manually set the idle & turn the choke off after a cold overnight start
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If the cylinder is cold = No sparks are happening , so check again that it is sparking,
Swap the coils & caps front and back , then the rear cylinder should be cold , and front hot
If it makes no difference swapping ignition parts = Then check the harness is actually sending signals on those lines otherwise you have a damaged circuit along the harness that’s leading to that coil
You also want to make sure for example front cylinder has a wire that is “BLACK with GREEN LINE” —> measure that line at the ECU end for breaks (dead signal / loss along the harness) or the meter will tell you the line is complete and there is no breaks.
You want to be sure the injectors are working ===> Start the bike as you would, if the cylinder is cold. Turn her off , then remove the spark plug of that cylinder, it should be very wet with fuel ? , if else swap injectors around. And see if the rear cylinder gets cold and front engine gets hot ?
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We seem to have spark but it still runs the same with the front leed off.
As mentioned before , you have to try my previous reply in regards to swapping things around to back cylinder , checking injectors
If you can, get the service manual in this forum and report back here with a multi meter when the bike is COLD:
– Stator values (It is the first thing to tell engine ECU when to spark)
– Ignition coil values (primary and secondary resistance)
– HT Cap values (on its own) (eg. 45K ohms)It can narrow things down taking away most of the guessing , either way you have a cold cylinder, something isn’t right unless you have a Heat Gun that can measure accurately what temperature the cylinder actually is eg. Rear Exhaust pipe = 150 degress celcius , Front Pipe = 44 deg. *C
We can then determine finally if you are fuel starved there or electrical misbehave (lethargic sparks at the front etc)
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Sorry back again, now I took the bike out for the first proper ride yesterday . It was going pretty good. Then after 10 mins it started to spit and fart under 2,500 revs. I checked anything to do with the coils, seemed ok. This morning the same when it was cold. After stopping and starting maybe 5-6 times, it started clicking from I think the solenoid near the battery. Battery is full.
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If you unscrew the HT wires away from the coil so it is by itself (Yes the actual HT wire should be unscrewed so the cone has no wire attached to it)
Tell us again the primary and secondary resistance of each coil
Eg. Coil Front
– 0.6 Ohm (less than a single ohm)
– 12,000 ohms (12.K)We can match those with the service manual if its in spec or not. It helps to get a picture of the coils on the bike, Hyosung used variations of coils until they settled with a Delphi Shotgun coil after 2013+.
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Coil test. Front Primary 4.7 Secondary 14.98 cap 7.52. I can’t pull the cable out of the coil, I’m not sure if it will break? Rear Primary 4.8 Secondary 13.67 Cap 4.88. Pickup coil 210, supposed to be 110-140. Stator it goes down to .1 the 0 on all? I can’t start it at the moment, it was ok then starter solenoid started clicking. Battery is is floating on 13.03.
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New stator will be needed now and regulator in tandem (all part of the ignition system as is the frame mounted coils)
Do you have a picture of your current coil? (i will tell you if you’re OK based on the picture of the coil) but with the weird running issues apart from the fixed injectors, the ignition parts may be your next enemies (coil may work then acts intermitently once you ride for a little bit, no way to measure it while riding if its flactuating)
I can attest to the fact that I had fixed customer bikes with OEM stators intact but damn , they starting causing all kinds of issues once the bike ran up to temps (yes its charging but the pickup coil was making a mess of the ECU and ignition coils)
Also consider Shingden upgrade (DO NOT buy an OEM or Aliexpress regulator, you will regret it very quickly! , many riders online can attest to this fact) , something simlar to this below will set you for life.
Upgrade Regulator Rectifier & Stator Generator – GV650 GT650 Hyosung {Carby & EFi up to 2013}
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I have a battery monitor on the bike. When I rev it, it will reach 13.7. Do you think that it isn’t charging right? The bloke I got the bike off said he fitted a new rectifier but not the stator. He also gave me a bag of spares. It includes a new stator and rectifier as the one you are showing me. -
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The regulator look like we posted it to him, did he buy it from us or someplace else ? Electrosport is OK for stators.
But like with any brand , the stators can still die (the pulse sensor itself) could just have been one of the rare bad batches made , it happens.
Coils = Thousands are made every day from many outsourcing companies for Suzuki & Hyosung.
Go on your own local ebay and get “SV650 1999” (that year only) GENUINE coil, it will have a triangle logo on it and it is the SAME coil used on Hyosung GT650 early models. Mitsubishi Japan is the company that made identical coils for SV650 and GT650 , SV650 is just a more common bike. Make sure the seller can verify readings.
If not, OEM Korea would be best (but then again Hyosung themselves get those coils from Mitsubishi Japan, it’s the same coil)
There is A LOT of bad clones of those coils made from china sweatshops , so you will either have a good one or bad one (or a good one that gets haywire after a while just like the “netrider AU” forum post was saying)
I’d advise:
– Get Genuine 1999 SV650 or GT650 coils that are verified working, they will last a long time as long as the bike or the rain/water doesn’t iritate them– Go to Amazon and get MAGNECOR “HT WIRES” (they are very good)
– Caps , try the OEM SV ones but your current caps seem OK. Just as long as they are not visually cracked or showing signs of “heat fatigue” which kills them too (The hole is deep and it gets very hot there)
– Fresh CR8E plugs again (I know, I know, but if you have sparking issues , the plugs will get shot again, they need a stable 10,000V coming from the ignition system)
– Get that starter relay solenoid and CHECK your flywheel ==> Go behind and make sure there is no odd damage (if the bike tries to start and you hear “thud thud” , investigate the whole sprag-clutch system behind the flywheel or you may have a hydrolock in the engine , change oil and fix the carb (jammed floats or float-seats leaking fuel past their own internal seal causing fuel to slowly drip out of the carb in to the cylinders)
Around 22,000 ohms is generally what hyosung wants at the HT point , the “terminals/lead pins” should be very very low (4 ohms ish is about the sweet spot)
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Hi Marcel, would you be able to point me in the right direction for coils? 09 model. What did you think of the numbers for the new ones I showed you that I have? I bought coils, leads and caps. One last question for now. Can the starter solenoid go from working normally, to just clicking? Hey sorry in advance with asking about all of this. It’s seems hard to get help over here.
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Starter Solenoid = It’s common, the 650 draws a lot from it to start, and eventually the internal parts of the solenoid refuse to lift up to trigger battery power down to the starter motor, hence click click but again , investigate the starter motor => remove it and connect it directly to battery and see if it spins healthy
Battery out of the bike and do it far away cause it can cause sparks touching the starter motor body – Wear electric gloves and eye wear. believe me.
Then drain oil and be sure your sprag system is OK behind the flywheel (sometimes if the sprag-clutch is on the way out, it causes more tax on the starter motor and the solenoid to spin the crank)
0.8 on yellow wires ice cold is fine on the stator = It’s just charging purposes , has no effect on how much the bike can spark. It is the blue/green wires from the pulse sensor. That little black box alone can go haywire at any time causing a whole stator needing replacement again. Keep in mind Delphi stators not backwards compatible, so hope your last owners made sure it was a pre-2010 stator.
Regulator = Only voltage is needed , but if it is a genuine Shingden regulator, you shouldn’t worry too much about it as long as it is above 13.6 – 14v to charge (even at idle) but max of 14.6v (any higher will fry the EFi parts as ECU has very small micro chips in it)
Your picture = Early EFi model (2008-2010 range), you likely have a Mitsubishi ECU (Hence Mitsubishi coil too) or DENKO Japan but either way it will say “made in Japan” unless it says DAEWOO KOREA on it (Daewoo Korea will be fine on that big Mitsubishi coil)
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On the day before I got it going, it was still playing up. Apparently I forgot to change one of the spark plug caps. We saw sparks coming out of front cylinder. It had micro cracks. Put the new one in and started and ran great. Then took it out and it ran great until it started doing the same. This time I ran out of fuel because the gauge is out. Put fuel in to get home and it still played up a bit. I went back over the coils. Back is still 4.8 but the front is 7.6. Rear coil secondary 13.9 Front coil secondary is 15.2. Rear primary 4.8 Front primary 4.8. Front total to front plug is 22.8 front total 18.7. Stator and pick up seem to be good. That’s when the starter motor stuffed up. I don’t know but hoping it was a fuel issue that day. If not it’s a heat thing somewhere?
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The coils are retrograding , if sparks came out (arc’ing) , replace either SV99 or GT650 pre-2010 coils (same coil maker) and replace the caps as a good measure. Readings may be OK but may be arc’ing when running. SV99 caps should fit OK or another set of OEM hyosung caps for now. However “magnecor” HT wires are recommended over the stock black HT wires.
Pulse sensors are not normally changed on their own , and can be a messy process if not sure how to do it without cutting and chopping wires up , there should be loads of posts online about 650’s burning the stator plugs when the connectors have rust in them (resistance goes up!) Clean the connectors as best as you can and try to avoid the rear tyre thrown stones or water at them.
Go on ebay and type in “SUZUKI HARNESS BOOT” , this MUST be used to hide plugs under the airbox and near the rear shock. I do this on all my hyos and customer ones (rains a lot in UK!)
Hyosung used one boot for the headlight (55 watts down those plugs!) , so you will have seen it.
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I will hopefully get the starter motor before the weekend. The stator and pickup are new electrosport brand, lucky to have 400 klms on them. The front cap was only sparking because I forgot to put the new one in. After I replaced with the new one, it started up and it ran great. I will get some just in case.
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Have changed the plugs. So everything is new. Starts and runs great, until it warms up. It idles on 1400 until it warms up then 1100. Now the miss or stutter is in between the idle numbers. I did notice what I think Marcel mentioned. It was like clunk a starter makes when dying, except it seems like it was in the engine.
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Sprag Clutch = Age , wear and tear , or premature damage (if the last owner neglected the bike and was busy trying to start it 1000x a day, it could wear it down a lot faster) but you won’t know until you remove it off the flywheel.
Idling = Does it ever cut out when idling hot even at 1,100 rpm ? If not, could you recheck your throttle body TPS and possibly the lambda sensor using the service manual to match up any values within OEM spec ?
If we were to assume the basics ==> A carb bike that’s struggling to hold 1500 rpm would indicate blocked pilots or poor floats (EFI= Fuel pump or injectors)
or else
the idle adjuster knob needs increasing to 1500 rpm when hot (EFI= your ISCV unit should maintain idle when ride is not touching throttle tube but alas , EFI also means airbox sensors & throttle body sensors need checking too)
or else
We must check the entire ignition system both EFi & Carby => coils, caps, stator and CDI (EFi= ECU)
I believe you solved the ignition issues?
or else
If the rpm needle is going up and down in a sweeping fashion (1200 – 1800rpm), this carb bike would suggest its hunting for fuel or plugs are wanning => Replace plugs or check float height (For EFi = Fuel pump and injectors and/or ISCV unit + TPS)At this point, you have done more progress with it , so you should be happy it’s not dying as much ? We getting there. Welcome to EFi world! Carby sounds easier doesn’t it ? but EFI is more “snappy & responsive” on the throttle!
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Mine is efi. When cold it idles perfectly and revs normally/responsive. As it gradually warms up, the revs slowly drop until it gets to 1,000-1,100. That’s when it starts to play up. At least it doesn’t seem to stall now. Sometimes when I rev when the engine warms up, the engine will make like a weird clunky noise. I will check out the tps today as well.
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Mine is efi. When cold it idles perfectly and revs normally/responsive. As it gradually warms up, the revs slowly drop until it gets to 1,000-1,100. That’s when it starts to play up. At least it doesn’t seem to stall now. Sometimes when I rev when the engine warms up, the engine will make like a weird clunky noise. I will check out the tps today as well.
hard to tell you without a video. And record it next time, go to where the source of the noise is (eg. if its the stator cover, go to the stator cover and try to record it there)
Or if its your Cam Chain tensioners, check them for noises or cam chain rattle etc.
Again, record and go to where the source of the noise is.Upload the video to OneDrive, GoogleDrive, DropBox etc and get a “public share link” to post it here on the forum.
A code won’t come up for certain parts that need a manual measurement. The service manual will usually detail which parts will give a code and some that need manual measurement.
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Ok here is something for you. With the tps something is a bit bent where the bolt goes through. Maybe from the heat. I thought I would try turning manually, I will check it with the multimeter. Anyway I slowly turned it up, it started to idle better and rev mostly without a cough. Then I tightened it in that spot. Still getting a slower idle 1,000-1,100. Start it again and still playing up a bit. It must move when tightening because I loosened the bolt move it and running good again. I’ll try and find another tps. I’ll also take some video to show you. I think we are hopefully heading in the right direction 😬
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Ok here is something for you. With the tps something is a bit bent where the bolt goes through. Maybe from the heat. I thought I would try turning manually, I will check it with the multimeter. Anyway I slowly turned it up, it started to idle better and rev mostly without a cough. Then I tightened it in that spot. Still getting a slower idle 1,000-1,100. Start it again and still playing up a bit. It must move when tightening because I loosened the bolt move it and running good again. I’ll try and find another tps. I’ll also take some video to show you. I think we are hopefully heading in the right direction
Double check the throttle body too, make sure the “threads” where the screw goes in to isn’t damaged otherwise , if it is , do a HELI-COIL mod (youtube “heli coil”)
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I found this this morning and the numbers are a lot higher than mine
What do I go by 5/09 or 2010?- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.