Testing without tank – GT650R 2009 EFi
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Bike Model = : GT650R
is it possible to run the bike without the fuel tank on, using a temp tank which means the pump won’t be connected? If there isn’t a pump, will the ecu stop the injectors from firing?
I’m back at it again, I know it’s sparking ok (will fire if adding something manually such as easy start via the inlets). Bench tested injectors but when all together it doesn’t run, as though there is no fuel. Fuel pump is pumping though. -
Hmmm! Good question, auxilary canisters dripping with fuel is easy for carb bikes but alas with EFI we need the physical tank pressure and also the pump can’t run dry whatsoever as it kills it.
How about this….. .”USE EXTREME CAUTION” and wisdom please….. but with that , lets:
- Go find a good spot in the garage, and see if you can get hook in the ceiling beam? a strong one!!!
- Get a cargo net x 6 , yes 6 cargo nets
- Put the tank onthe cargo nets x3 (3 nets at the bottom)
- Then use them with someone next to you to hook each end of the net with some kind of towing rope on ceiling
- Repeat again with 3 cargo nets, it sounds crazy but you want to avoid any situation or pump shakes causing the tank to fall down as that’s an instant fire hazard.#
but again …use extreme caution and wisdom!
Run to halfords and get 8-10mm braided hose and fuel clips and come back home , connect the pump to the throttle bodies and tighten#
the tank must be high enough / low enough that you can still use electric plug to connect it without pulling the harness!
now you can actually test what’s going on under the hood with the tank that’s hanging above the frame
I hope this makes any sense ?
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Ended up with the tank lifted on some timber. One injector was not working and someone who’s previously messed with it had the throttle bodies massively out of balance. Once is sorted then it’s smooth and running just now it’s idling at about 4k
turns out to be the tps, tested as per the manual and it’s reading 4.8 kohm’s closed and 0.48 when throttle fully open.
its a 09 Mitsubishi ecu with the 2 hole TPS, I assume the one in the shop will do?
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its a 09 Mitsubishi ecu with the 2 hole TPS, I assume the one in the shop will do?
If it looks the same as the shop one , then yes it will fit it because later EFi models changed to a smaller ones , and then again in their later 2020+ GV650 models (Since the GT650 tends to get GV650 parts sometimes shoved in by the factory)
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Sensor fitted, got it setup as per instructions on here (has the “c” with the “-” above it, and not just “c” on its own). It now idles at around 3-4K and then drops, but then dies.
ISCV seems ok when bench tested. So I’m thinking I need to double check the SAV, pipes and also the Lambda sensor (as the loom and sensor were both missing the plug so I have fitted one, but perhaps miss wired). No error codes.
Getting closer but not quite there. Funny though that last year it was running on the drive for ages.
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Lambda could need checking but if its idling then dying down, its like if i have a carb version, the bike would idle and die suggesting the float bowls of the carb have gone empty , tank tap and vacuum pump have locked (no extra fuel coming out) or floats have jammed.
In the case of EFi, idling then dying , the worst offender may be the trio of pump , injectors and ECU itself. I hope to be wrong as i haven’t gathered info about your situation as of yet.
If it was idling on the drive , can you start it today , go down the street and come back (don’t go to far incase it cuts and you have to push it back)
Would it start right away after cutting out ?
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Had a very quick look today, starts with the smallest amount of throttle. Was idling and then I was popping around to see if I could find any dodgy pipes and it started to drop to about 1.5k then increase to about 4, then again and again. Just pulsing.
Planning to strip the throttle bodies, SAV and ISCV from it and double check all electrical items appear OK and there’s no splits in any pipes.
I have this feeling it’s a connection or pipe as last time it stopped I had had my hand in there testing the thermostat.
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I have this feeling it’s a connection or pipe as last time it stopped I had had my hand in there testing the thermostat.
Sounds like that’s the area there that’s suspect , like you said could be connectors causing the ECU to killswitch the bike off.
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- I took the throttle bodies off, all hoses look good.
- Bench tested the ISCV and SAV, both OK.
- Reassembled and it ran, very fast idle.
- Connected up a pair of gauges to the throttle bodies and rebalanced them, it ran better.
- Adjusted the Throttle/Idle screw stop as I noticed that the butterflies were not fully closing when I had it on the bench.
Video attached of how it current runs, sometimes it will run ok for a minute, then end up as in the video, eventually it will stop. Also seems very hot very quickly. Fan turns on though.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0fa1UlIgx0WlFONxzNlTERhag
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Does the fuel pump get a little louder as you rev up ? And can you ride it down the street and back when putting the bike under some kind of load.
And incase i forgot if you mentioned it or not, have you replaced the injectors and ignition coils too?
This week i was dealing with a customer GV250 EFi , the front was not firing and the ISCV worked extra hard to keep revs around 15000 which was funny to see but goes to show the ECU couldn’t even sense the coils were dead.
Now the ignition coil actually showed good primary and secondary readings …. = This is the dead coil. ? = I put it on the rear , the the back cylinder stopped firing.
So i was stumped, I concluded the coil had an internal fault despite readings being OK.
Here is funny part , the GOOD coil showed ZERO readings on the HT coil but it was firing up like a happy bunny on both cylinders , despite the manual saying if you get “zero readings” for primary and secondary = replace the coil! It was a day of cursing , i knew both injectors were working as the GV250 only has 900 miles! yes 900 miles 2016 model but it was left outside to rot! , so looks terrible but the engine miraculously still works , so i can finish recommissioning the bike.
I though i could say all this to have another crack at the injectors and ignition coils again.
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Not sure if the pump is getting louder or not.
But swoped coils and injectors and no difference.
Need to test each IAP I think, I did a quick test where I clamped each hose in turn, they reacted completely differently, rear one immediately the revs changed, front one did nothing for quite a few seconds. They have new hoses as were split (that’s what I originally thought the issue was!) , so plan is to test each IAP as I can’t remember if I have, then double check the front throttle body again for anything which could be leaking.
if all the sensors, wiring and piping is OK could it be valve clearances? Starting to clutch at straws now.
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Internal fault with the magneto pulse sensor ? (despite good readings) , I had it happen to me 2yrs ago , did everything i could until i replaced the stator. It was charging beautifully on the 3 phase wires however riding it down the street was very knee jerking , then sometimes it refused to start. As soon as i swapped the stator for a new one, all was good.
Clearance check is not a bad shout though , even if it means you get a peace of mind the valves clearances are good until next major service , (if i recall, the manual expects us to “look” every 4k-6k miles and decide if adjustments are needed or not, so probably any extra 30 mins with covers off and feeler gauge just to see.
In your own opinion do you hear anything suspicious happening at the top end ? or just normal valve-chatter (valves are ok and no chains are slapping around etc)
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Out of interest I just disconnected the rear IAP pipe and hey presto she idles. Pretty smoother but not enough to read a good voltage from the sensor, but both appear to read about the same.
tomorriw I’m going to swop the sensors over that way I can rule out the pipes or the sensor
Got new magneto and pickup in.
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Interesting, never thought of the Intake Air Pressure sensor to go out , it’s not something that’s a “common fault” , i suppose it just had an internal fault probably or the signal between the connector going to the ECU wasn’t strong or there is a kink in harness leading to it?
Nice work!
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I took the loom out which goes from the main harness to the sensors and injectors, cleaned all the connectors, also double checked all the pipes. Re-assembled and seems ok.
I couldn’t find anything wrong with the harness, and even though all seems OK I have this doubt about it, but I’ll see how’s things go.
Need to do a few other small jobs and then put her in for MOT if she keeps idling ok.
Very close to getting her back on the road for the first time since about 2018.
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